Sweet Spot: Jules Gregg Wins 10th Wine Spectator Award For Tony’s

by Joe Bonadio

San Francisco has been a food mecca for better than a century, its constantly shifting urban environment making for a unique culinary laboratory. As I write this, the city is in the midst of yet another dining revival, with returning workers and tourists fueling a brand-new wave of vanguard restaurants. In fact, last month San Francisco landed an impressive seven spots on 50 Best’s list of the finest restaurants in North America.

The other side of the coin in San Francisco dining, wine has long been part and parcel of the California dining experience. Since the Tasting of Paris catapulted California wine onto the world stage in 1976, upending Europe’s monopoly over wine markets, the Bay Area has become synonymous with world-class wineries. And our menus have reflected that, with many San Francisco restaurants boasting wine lists that rival the best anywhere.

But as ever, things continue to change. And perhaps due to the advent of legal cannabis—and now psilocybin—consumers are making different choices. Wine consumption is down across the board, with many younger adults drinking less, or eschewing the grape entirely.

That being said, there is one restaurant that is selling more wine than ever: Tony’s Pizza Napoletana. And there’s a very good reason for that: Wine Director Jules Gregg, who has been helming Tony’s stellar Italian/Californian wine list for a whopping 14 years. This year Gregg nabbed a singular honor, earning the restaurant its tenth (!) Wine Spectator Award for outstanding wine list. And as you’ll see from our interview, that wasn’t the only press Gregg received. Lightly edited for length and clarity, our conversation is below.

Joe Bonadio (JB): Hey Jules!

Jules Gregg (JG): Hey Joe. Did you see the Forbes article?

JB: No! There’s more? What did you get, like 30 under 35?

JG: No, no! They did a feature about me.

JB: When did this come out?

JG: It came out like a week ago.

JB: Wow! That’s fantastic.

JG: Yeah, it was really cool to be featured. Because usually the focus is mostly the restaurant….which of course is awesome. It’s all for the good of all of us, so it’s nice to be featured.

JB: And of course, that’s why I’m here!

JG: Well, thank you.

JB: You know, this is the third time we’ve done this.

JG: That’s right.

JB: And I feel like there’s so much to talk about. Last time we did this, we were actually wearing masks.

JG: We were!

JB: And you had just won the Wine Spectator Award for the sixth year in a row.

JG: Yeah, and I think I was doing the wine stores….or we had just reopened.

JB: And you gave us some recos for pizza pairings for that one. But it was definitely 2020.

JG: Yeah. Interesting times.

JB: Now, it’s five years later—and everyone’s blowing you up. You just got your 10th Wine Spectator Award.

JG: Number 10! And it would have been #11, if it wasn’t for COVID.

JB: Pardon my French, but we don’t have a lot of that on the menu here: That’s a big freaking deal.

JG: Pretty cool, right?

JB: It is. I’ve always felt like you’re a great role model for this business.

JG: Thank you.

JB: Really, it’s about consistency. And don’t stop doing what you do. It’s great that Tony has given you that road to run on.

JG: He pretty much gives me the room to do the job right. I think in the 12 years I’ve run the list, Tony has asked me to put two wines on, and one of them was his. But I had to taste it first! (Laughter)

JB: Well there’s a reason you’re doing this job. You did a lot of stuff for Tony before he decided to offer you this gig.

JG: Absolutely, absolutely. And it’s been really fun. He’s given me a lot of projects to do for the company, which is really cool.

JB: So he keeps it fun and interesting for you.

JG: Definitely.

JB: As he should. You know, I just passed the 10th year with my website.

JG: Nice! See? 10 years, all around.

JB: Persistence is what it’s all about, for sure. So Jules, I’d really like to ask you about all the changes we’ve seen in the city. First, just in terms of food and beverage overall.

JG: Sure. Well, it was a rough comeback from COVID, for all of us. North Beach came back first—we all rallied around each other, and thanks to our neighborhood and everybody who came back to North Beach, we came back pretty quickly. Overall, I think that things are going okay. The neighborhoods are cleaning up a lot more, and I’m really optimistic about our new mayor. I feel like people are coming back. I’ve seen more people in the FiDi during the week, and I feel like the mass exodus is over.

JB: Yeah, that part’s pretty much done.

JG: You know, every big city goes in waves. And I feel like our time is coming back.

JB: There’ve been a lot of openings, and that’s been going on for a couple of years now.

JG: Yes, a good couple of years.

JB: And it’s starting to really get some momentum. Like that stretch of Kearny, runs straight through the middle of FiDi. There are so many little places open and thriving there now, doing lunch boxes and stuff like that.

JG: And Polk Gulch is starting to come back, too. Like I said, every city has its ups and downs. I feel like ours is starting to come back for sure. But it’s a little hard to gauge, because it’s a different economy. It’s a different president, a different vibe. I think some people are afraid to spend money.

JB: Because of the basic uncertainty.

JG: Because of the uncertainty, for sure. And the things that have happened….I feel like government-wise, some people don’t feel super secure. So maybe they’re spending a little less money.

JB: On the other hand, when it comes to luxury spending, it seems like people who have excess money are more likely to spend it, at least in some cases.

JG: I hope so.

JB: I’ve got a question for you. You always have your finger on what’s selling and what’s not selling; have your average sales in the wine department been going up or down?

JG: My sales have gone up consistently this year, which is good. First quarter was a little down for the first time in a long time. But second quarter was back up. Third quarter, steady.

JB: What about in terms of what people are buying? How many of those are bottles that are $50, $75 or above? More or less?

JG: Less. My sweet spot on the wine list is $48 to $70. And that’s what I usually keep.

JB: That’s so funny. That’s my sweet spot on the wine list! (Laughter)

JG: Well first of all, it’s a pizza place. Secondly, I want it to be approachable. I don’t want anything sitting in my wine cellar for a long time because it’s priced out. I mean, there are some high-ticket items that people will pay for that are amazing, and I do keep them on. But I want to sell a lot of wines.

And also, that $48 to $70 dollar is a realistic two-bottle price. Meaning, at that price point a lot of people will be more likely to order two bottles. If you’re spending $360 on one bottle of Opus, you’re probably just going to get one. But if you’re spending say $56 on a really good bottle of Super Tuscan, or maybe a Rosso di Montalcino or something, and you want to have another one—that price point is great for a second bottle.

JB: That’s true.

JG: And when you’re having pizza, a second bottle is always a big possibility, especially when there’s more than two people at the table.

JB: Jules, I want to ask you more specifically about your business—about wine. It seems like that’s one of the biggest changes we’ve seen in terms of restaurant culture over the last few years, really since the retreat of COVID: people are just drinking less.

JG: People are drinking a lot less. Everybody did dry January this year, and then some. People are drinking less, and I think people are drinking at home a little more. Again, it’s a different economy.

JB: Yep, there’s a lot of San Francisco Sober out there.

JG: One thing I’ve seen in some other restaurants, is prices going up. Not at Tony’s, because I refuse to raise my wine prices here; we stay competitive and do a great job, and still make money.

JB: Yeah, it seems like a lot of people out there are profit taking.

JG: I’ve seen some crazy markups, I mean crazy. I know what these bottles cost.

JB: I know. When the bottle is $9, you don’t need to get $16 for the glass.

JG: Right! And also with people drinking less, the choices change. Say you’re going out, and you’re in your twenties and you don’t know a lot about wine. Are you going to spend $16 for a mixed cocktail that you can’t make at home because you don’t have all those ingredients, or get a glass of wine? Especially when you can easily get a bottle of wine and drink it at home. There’s value there.

Another thing that’s different, is it used to be a round of cocktails, then a bottle of wine and you’d go from there. Whereas now it’s a bottle of wine or a round of cocktails, not both anymore.

JB: You’re right, it was usually both. How much do you think that has to do with the explosion of things like mushrooms?

JG: Probably a lot, probably a lot. I know plenty of people who are what they call ‘California Sober,’ so they don’t drink anymore, but they do other things. I’m sure that’s part of it. But I think we have some younger people in the city that just don’t know a lot about wine, and maybe they’re a little intimidated—so they keep ordering my house red.

I see it, because I’m on the floor as a server too. A couple weeks ago I was talking to one group, and they weren’t looking at the list, just at the wines by the glass. I told them, I know you want to drink wine, and I know you don’t know that much—but I do. And I have a bunch of things in the $46 or $48 range I can suggest to you. So let’s get into my list, and drink some fun stuff. And they were like, yeah, we’re totally in. So that was really fun.

One thing I try to do on the floor is to make our list, and the whole process, a little more approachable. Say I know you’ve come here a few times, and you already know the Chianti is delicious. To keep things interesting, I’ll suggest that I find something else on the list that’s going to be fun—maybe around that same price, or maybe just a couple dollars more.

Because we have so many great wines, and great values on the list. This year when I got the tenth Wine Spectator Award, we were listed in green which means ‘inexpensive wine list.’ I like to say value wines, because we keep the quality so high.

JB: Just don’t call it cheap. (Laughter)

JG: Right! Because the quality overall is so good though the prices are really reasonable.

JB: Well half your list is Italian—there are a lot of values to be had in Italy. And people don’t know about those wines.

JG: Exactly. People don’t know about those wines. That’s why I’m here.

JB: And unlike a lot of wine directors, you sell all day. You’re a monkey wrench.

JG: Right. And it’s really cool for me when I come to the table and the customer says, we don’t know much about Italian wines. And I’m like, well I do. I’m Jules. And they open up the wine list and they’re like, You’re Jules? They’re so surprised that I’m their server. At that point, I’m like Okay, Let’s do this!

JB: That is a cool feature.

JG: It is pretty cool.

JB: So before, we touched on the changes in people’s habits. Drinking is way down.

JG: Honestly, I think we are still holding on to our numbers here because our pricing is so good, and the list is really approachable. There’s a lot of people out there who aren’t selling as much wine, but thankfully we are. I also feel like when I did the pairings, where each of the wines by the glass is paired with a particular pizza—that helped increased wine sales too.

And just helping educate the staff, and keeping everybody on the same page; making sure both wine lists go on the table for instance, so people can see the big list as well. No question, by the glass is a lot of our sales. But I make the rest of the list for a reason. So ask for the main wine list if you don’t have it on your table.

JB: I agree, you’ve got to see it. Your wines by the glass are great, but they’re just the tip of the iceberg.

JG: Exactly.

JB: As you know, I’ve gotten some experience in the wine business in the last few years, and I know how tricky it is to buy wines effectively. To find these wines; to source them. To get these [ahem] distributors just to show up with samples half the time.

JG: Well, it’s been very difficult recently, because one of the main companies decided to drop out of California. So RNDC is no longer doing business here.

JB: That’s right, I read something about that.

JG: Yes. As of September 1st. So this month has been a little bit of a challenge, just figuring out who to order from. I’ve actually had to take pictures of wine to send to a bunch of my vendors and ask: Who has this now? This is what I want. Because everything has moved around.

JB: Yeah, just one big email to everyone.

JG: Yeah. That’s the way it goes, guys! I’ve got customers. It almost makes me feel like I’m not doing my job, because I don’t know who to order it from. But everything has changed.

JB: Well no, that is your job. Finding out. What’s the quickest way to do it?

JG: Right. And I have a lot of good vendors who take care of me, people that I’ve worked with for a long time. So that helps a lot as well. I mean, there are so many challenges.

JB: One of them is all of the tariffs. Has that had an effect on you?

JG: For sure, it’s affected us a little bit. When I was in Italy this year, a lot of the talks were about tariffs. One of the things Italian winemakers were focused on was how, between the winemakers and the distributors, to offset the tariffs. To make sure they don’t hit the buyer so hard.

Italy is working really hard to ensure that, between winemakers and the distributors, they absorb as much of the tariffs as possible.

JB: Squeeze those margins…

JG: Right, so the buyers aren’t hit too hard. Because they still want to do business together, and this isn’t going to last forever. Usually we have a lot of discussions about climate change and harvest and things like that, not so much this time. So tariffs took up a lot of our time, because between us, we just need to figure out how to keep doing business together.

JB: Thanks again for the conversation, Jules. And congratulations.